http://www.zelpage.cz/razeni/10

http://www.zelpage.cz/razeni/10

Interesting Page. The R trains to Nurnberg and Munich go with EC cars - very good! :-)

But where are the new Bistros the CD built/redesigned for this connections?

Could you please translate the following text:

Auf Deutsch: Das sind die CD-Wagenreihungen für den Fahrplan 2009/2010. Die Regionalzüge von Prag nach München und Nürnberg fahren jetzt komplett mit EC-Material (München) bzw. nur in der ersten Klasse (Nürnberg). So wie ich das Tschechische auffasse, sollen diese Halbgepäckwagen durch Bistros ersetzt werden. Aber mal sehen, was die Übersetzung ergibt.

Good morning,
I have been interested in this forum for more than 1 year
and I have finally registered.
Thanks to all for very useful info about actual railway service in Germany.

Now to your question:
The new Bistro car will be in operation from 11.01.2010, see below:

http://www.zelpage.cz/razeni/10/vlaky/cd-350?obdobi=2010-01-11:2010-12-11

You can change the time of operation by selecting appropriate time period
in select box "Řazení platné v období:"

Jan

Good morning,
I have been interested in this forum for more than 1 year
and I have finally registered.
Thanks to all for very useful info about actual railway service in Germany.

Now to your question:
The new Bistro car will be in operation from 11.01.2010, see below:

http://www.zelpage.cz/razeni/10/vlaky/cd-350?obdobi=2010-01-11:2010-12-11

You can change the time of operation by selecting appropriate time period
in select box "Řazení platné v období:"

Jan

Thanks for the information! I didn't notice the box to change the date yet. I hoped that the new bistro car will replace the BDbmrsee, they look so worn...

It's really cool that the R trains to Germany have better cars than EC 100/101 :-D

Hello, ARmpee from 11.1. 2010

http://www.zelpage.cz/razeni/10/vlaky/cd-354?obdobi=2010-01-11:2010-12-11

Translate:
transport for push cart and small bistro and place for a big bag.

Is it hard on translate.

Bye.

Hello, I hope, in future R 350-357 raise to category EC.
Bye

Hello!

It's really cool that the R trains to Germany have better cars than EC 100/101 :-D

That's not cool! That's sh**! ;-)

m b g,
Anoj

Hello!

It's really cool that the R trains to Germany have better cars than EC 100/101 :-D

That's not cool! That's sh**! ;-)

m b g,
Anoj

Hehe, the CD simply prioritizes :-p

Hallo!

- Kurswagen Wien - Berlin im EN "Metropol" mit CD-Schlafwagen, MAV-Liegewagen und MAV-Sitzwagen. A(R)Z scheint zu entfallen.
- Auf EC "Vindobona" bin ich in einem älteren Posting bereits eingegangen.

m b g,
Anoj

Anoj: Hello, In D 206/207 Bee CD with climatization. Bye.

NIM rocks: But ARRiva have s*** car. Bm not have climatization. Bye

Anoj: Hello, In D 206/207 Bee CD with climatization. Bye.

Do all CD cars with red livery have climatization and all cars with green livery have none? I thougt the green cars going to Munich also have climatization.

Hello, yes, red Bee and Bpee have climatization. Green Bee and Bpee have not climatization. But in future every car will blue company colour.

http://www.zelpage.cz/zpravy/7018 For example ARmpee is in company colour.

Climatization

ČD
2* ARmpee
3* BMZ

Arriva
2*ABvmz

Have Arriva B(p)mz and A(p)mz ???

I prefer DB car than Arriva.

And what think about D reise to category EC. Is really in future?

Bye

NIM rocks: And why DB wan´t IC and EC with Prag and Nurnberg. We are building corridor Prag-Pilsner-Cheb, Why DB don´t build and electrific bahn CHeb Nurnberg????

Bye.

Hello, yes, red Bee and Bpee have climatization. Green Bee and Bpee have not climatization. But in future every car will blue company colour.

http://www.zelpage.cz/zpravy/7018 For example ARmpee is in company colour.

Ah ok, thanks.

Climatization

ČD
2* ARmpee
3* BMZ

Arriva
2*ABvmz

Have Arriva B(p)mz and A(p)mz ???

Yes/No. They have Avmz, with compartments and climatization. They also have ABvmdz, with compartments half second class, half first class, a compartment for bikes and climatization, but all these cars are not allowed to drive in CZ.

The have no Bpmz or Bmz cars, only Bomz und Bm. But the Bomz are not as comfy as the Bm! I like the Bm cars very much, they're really good!

I prefer DB car than Arriva.

You have to say what DB cars. The regional-cars from DB are often not as good as the cars from Arriva. You must remember that the Alex (Arriva) is a regional train in Germany.

And what think about D reise to category EC. Is really in future?

No, it's very improbable because the Alex is integrated in the Bavarian regional train tact and it's too slow to drive as EC. In the German part of the line the people won't accept the higher price for the EC and it would run very empty.

NIM rocks: And why DB wan´t IC and EC with Prag and Nurnberg. We are building corridor Prag-Pilsner-Cheb, Why DB don´t build and electrific bahn CHeb Nurnberg????

It's simply too expensive and the line won't run profitable! They're too few people who want to ride on the train to Prague.

The second problem is that the DB tries to wipe out the trains with cars and locomotives, the DB only wants trainsets in future.

Hello Daniel,

I don't know why the DB doesn't offer IC-services between Nuremberg and Praha. Wenn "Karlstejn" and "Egrensis" were cancelled in 2003 (?) it was said that workings in Czech Republic have been the reason and that in five years - so 2008 - the trains will run again. We know the result...

For sure one reason ist that Nuremberg-Marktredwitz-Cheb is not electrified. And the electrification of this line would be very difficult (and expensive ;) because of many low tunnels. For the cable the ceiling must be elevated or the tracks must be lowered.

For me an other reason is the new high speed line Nuremberg-Erfurt: ift Nuremberg-Marktredwitz(-Hof) would be electrified it would be for private operators a cheap and relatively fast alternative for offering trains running from Munich to Berlin via Hof - Leipzig and to Dresden. These trains would be a competition for the ICE.

Best regards, Jogi

Kleine Übersetzung: Daniel fragte, warum die DB keine ICs mehr zwischen Nürnberg und Prag anbietet, wo doch die CD an ihrer Strecke baut?
Ich antwortete, dass der rote Riese die zwei IC 2003 eingestellt hat, damals mit der Begründung wegen fünfjähriger Bauarbeiten auf tschechischer Seite. Die Nichtwiedereinführung hängt wahrscheinlich auch mit der fehlenden und wegen der niedrigen Tunnel schwer durchführbaren Elektrifizierung der Strecke Nürnberg-Marktredwitz zusammen.
Dann spielt für mich noch die NBS N-EF eine Rolle, da eine durchgehend elektrifizierte Sachsen-Franken-Magistrale recht schnelle und günstige Möglichkeiten für private Anbieter sind, Züge zwischen München und Berlin (über Hof-Leipzig) sowie Dresden (über Hof-Chemnitz) anzubieten.

NIM rocks: And why train 350-357 no practising DB?
In year 2010 probably will start redesign bahn 180 on fast 200. After this redesign R will raise on EC???

Bye

NIM rocks: trainsets, what is it? High speed train in set? We have Pendolino 680. ČD can go 2 hours takt Ostrava Praga nurnberg. And what EC 170-179 and 378/379? DB buy new ICE for this train, when they wan´t classic car??

NIM rocks: And why train 350-357 no practising DB?

There was an open tendering for the line Munich-Regensburg-Hof a few years ago. This tendering also included the services to Prague, and Arriva with the Alex won the tendering.

In year 2010 probably will start redesign bahn 180 on fast 200. After this redesign R will raise on EC???

What does "bahn 180" mean? No, on this line won't come EC. It is, including some new parts in CZ, too slow to run the trains in the category of long-distance trains.

Jogi: Hello, I think, work on corridor will to +- 2015?? High speed tunnel from Prag to Beroun will build in 2013-2020.

http://www.praha-beroun.cz/

I thing two EC would go. People in Czech would in Nurnberg change train on ICE to Dortmund. SC bus/DB Express bus is often full and in Christmas will go extra bus. Connect Prag Bavoria is very bad.

Bye.

Bahn 180 is Pilsner Domažlice Furt im Wald. And on bahn Prag pilsner is working = ČD have new bahn for EC Prag-Furt im Wald. Furt im wald - Regenesburg is in DB. DB must build new bahn.

Where have EC go?

1)Prag-Cheb-nurnberg no!
2)Prag-Munchen no!

so, where EC go to Bavoria???

NIM rocks: trainsets, what is it?

A whole new generation of trains will appear on the rails, starting in about the year 2014. Code name: "ICx". DB has already called tenders to several manufacturers, including Siemens (Venturio) and Bombardier (Zefiro). DB explicitly stated that they do not want a full size ICE, so I do not expect new Velaros.

Three batches will be delivered, the first (and most important) being a replacement for the classic loco-hauled InterCity trains. Here are some reasons why DB long-distance trains is doing this:

1. Age. Some of the IC cars originate from the 60s and according to DB, these cars do not meet today's long-distance comfort requirements; DB wants to phase them out (even in this forum a lot of people complain about the lack of comfort in these former interregio cars (Bimz, Bimdz), which are used as intercity cars today and originate from 1962). You cannot refurbish rail cars everytime (like the Italians do with their ALn.668s); at a certain moment, it's over.
2. Energy saving. The new trains will have distributed traction, like the ICE 3 trains and your CD680 tilting trains. Distributed traction results in better acceleration performance while consuming less energy, and this is what DB long-distance trains has in mind: to get into and out of the stations as quickly as possible.
3. Speed. Current loco-hauled trains reach a planned top speed of 200 km/h. The new trains allow higher speeds (230 km/h, maybe even 250 km/h, that's why I nickname them "IC250"). This will improve capacity on the classic high-speed lines as intercity trains do no longer slow down the faster ICE trains that are running behind them.
4. Maintenance. Current maintenance centres are designed for entire trainsets and fixed compositions like the ICE 1, not for locos and single cars.
5. Costs. Creating many equal components in high numbers mean that the costs per seat are minimised. As I said, two more batches will follow, the second being the replacement for the ICE 1 and the third being the replacement for the ICE 2. A total number of 300 trainsets is expected to be needed (which will make this tender probably the biggest high-speed tender worldwide). DB expects that the costs per seat for the new trains will be at the level of those for regional trains.

The 145 DB Class 101 locos are still fine and will definitely get other tasks to do (maybe fast regional express services, as is the case with the Munich-Nuremberg-Express, but most probably high quality Railion freight services; as a matter of facts, the Class 101 does that job already at night).

High speed train in set? We have Pendolino 680. ČD can go 2 hours takt Ostrava Praga nurnberg.

To be honest, I do not have very positive expectations for this! A two-hour cadence would be beautiful for us ICE fans (maybe we could organise a fan meeting in Prague!), but will this work for passengers in general? A lot of work has to be done in order to run a decent long-distance service; most of the German section of this track is still not electrified. Of course, the diesel ICE can be put into service as soon as Denmark has received their IC4 trains, but at the moment, even a bus service is not necessarily slower than a service by rail.

And what EC 170-179 and 378/379? DB buy new ICE for this train, when they wan´t classic car??

I guess you mean the trains running between Berlin and Prague as well as extensions up north to Westerland and down south to Vienna or even Budapest.
I always thought the Berlin-Vienna services were destined to be run with your CD680s. Berlin-Hamburg is served by ICE-T tilting trains; a diesel ICE is needed for the extension to Westerland (because part of the track is not electrified).
A service by these new IC250 trains is also possible.

In the case you didn't notice: I put some irony in my signature. One of the big names in the ICx project stated that "the intercity service is still very important" (however, we see that more and more intercity services are canceled and the ones left are losing their reputation rapidly). The picture shows a dirty, drowsy looking intercity driving trailer; you hardly notice the DB logo, indicating as if DB does not want to identify themselves with these trains any longer.
The closing sentence indicates how many time you have to enjoy a real DB intercity service before the ICx shows up (scheduled to be December 2016).

Many greetings from the Netherlands,

Oscar (NL).

--
Mit den neuen IC-Triebwagen wird alles besser !!

Trans-Europ-Express 2.0? Abwarten und TEE trinken!

Schienenstränge enden nicht an einer Staatsgrenze, sondern an einem Prellbock.

The second problem is that the DB tries to wipe out the trains with cars and locomotives, the DB only wants trainsets in future.

Not entirely true.
In the case of long-distance trains, you're right.

However, many regional express trains are served with DB Class 146 + double deck cars, including a driving trailer. DB Regio has ordered some batches of new double deck cars for several regions, so I do not expect the loco-hauled RE trains to disappear so soon as the loco-hauled IC stock.

On the other hand, DB is considering a try-out of motorised double deck cars in the near future. They will not look like the Class 445 Meridian trainset; think about a concept of unified car bodies with motorised or non-motorised bogies (which of course can also be hauled by a loco).

Cheers,

Oscar (NL).

--
Mit den neuen IC-Triebwagen wird alles besser !!

Trans-Europ-Express 2.0? Abwarten und TEE trinken!

Schienenstränge enden nicht an einer Staatsgrenze, sondern an einem Prellbock.

The second problem is that the DB tries to wipe out the trains with cars and locomotives, the DB only wants trainsets in future.

Not entirely true.
In the case of long-distance trains, you're right.

However, many regional express trains are served with DB Class 146 + double deck cars, including a driving trailer. DB Regio has ordered some batches of new double deck cars for several regions, so I do not expect the loco-hauled RE trains to disappear so soon as the loco-hauled IC stock.

Yes, you're definitively right! But all regional services, where are not enough passengers to transport, will be served by trainsets in future.

For example: RE Munich-Passau

Until 2009: 111+DB+DB+Bn+Bnf
After 2009: Coradia Continental

For example: RE Nuremberg-Würzburg

Until 2009: 143/112/146/111+5xBn+Bnf or 5xPuma+Pumaf
After 2009: Coradia Continental

The same on Munich-Augsburg-Ulm/Donauwörth. I coult list serveral other examples.

Double deck cars are only necessary for lines with many passengers and few track capacity, like it is in NRW.

On the other hand, DB is considering a try-out of motorised double deck cars in the near future. They will not look like the Class 445 Meridian trainset; think about a concept of unified car bodies with motorised or non-motorised bogies (which of course can also be hauled by a loco).

But this is long-distance again.

Greetz

Bahn 180 is Pilsner Domažlice Furt im Wald. And on bahn Prag pilsner is working = ČD have new bahn for EC Prag-Furt im Wald. Furt im wald - Regenesburg is in DB. DB must build new bahn.

Ah, you mean the "Donau-Moldau-Bahn"(so it is called in Germany).

I'm disappointed that this article doesn't have a Czech version. But perhaps you can use a translater to translate some parts.

On the Donau-Moldau-Bahn shall run ICEs every two hours, but there's no money for building this new line. And there are also, as I sad, not enough passengers who will use the line, at least in the eyes of the Germans...

So there will never be ECs. If there will be longe-distance trains from Munich or Nuremberg to Prague again, it'll be ICEs or other multi-system-trainsets.

Double deck cars are only necessary for lines with many passengers and few track capacity, like it is in NRW.

On the other hand, DB is considering a try-out of motorised double deck cars in the near future. They will not look like the Class 445 Meridian trainset; think about a concept of unified car bodies with motorised or non-motorised bogies (which of course can also be hauled by a loco).

But this is long-distance again.

Are you sure these will be long-distance trains?

I always thought of cars similar to the current RE160 double-deck cars, with the extra option to motorise the bogies (allowing DB Regio to compose double-deck trainsets but also allowing DB Regio to compose usual loco-hauled compositions). DB Regio will then be able to run trains in multiple (like our DD-AR and VIRM compositions) or serve different destinations.

So to say: the idea of the ICx applied to double-deck stock.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

Maybe there will be a brand new train family "IRx" in the future, with similar features as our VIRM trains, running also in a thirty-minute-cadence :) ...

Cheers,

Oscar (NL).

--
Mit den neuen IC-Triebwagen wird alles besser !!

Trans-Europ-Express 2.0? Abwarten und TEE trinken!

Schienenstränge enden nicht an einer Staatsgrenze, sondern an einem Prellbock.

Yes, we have Donau moldan bahn also. ICE is better than EC.

http://vrt.fd.cvut.cz/data/seminarky/2008zs/solfronk-praha_mnichov-prezentace.pdf

Hello, i hope in ICx on train line Wien - prague - Hamburg. We have only 7 680, this is problem, because Ostrava have SC. I want comeback EC karlstein and egrensis. in nurnberg is good change on ICE to Dortmund.

Bye.